Mahabharat - A Discussion (Part 1)

30/05/2015, 9:11 am - Sekar:

Lord Krishna and saguni who has achived their goal of demolishing Gauravas?

30/05/2015, 9:31 am - Rajasekar S :

Sekar sir naan history LA week. Deva its your area/ turn. Come on velaasu......Udu joot.

 

30/05/2015, 9:33 am - Sekar :

No, SR we know little, our understanding is also little. By these discussions we know many things and what others view 

30/05/2015, 9:35 am - Rajasekar S :

Remember: Irrationally held truths are more harmful than reasoned errors.

But there are still going to be errors_ Accept errors in life - We are/ Will never be perfect.

 

30/05/2015, 9:38 am - Sekar :

Now most of these characters are on little screen.

One and first serial Ramayanam , by ramanand sugar has changed my Impression on RAM. Other serial mahabharat has changed my impression on Krishna.

30/05/2015, 9:46 am - J Rathinakumar :

In what way sekar sir  +ve. or -ve . side

 

30/05/2015, 9:49 am - Sekar :

Now negative about Ram n Krishna earlier as others I was thinking positive 

30/05/2015, 10:19 am - Chandrasekar :

Saguni and krishna are worked hard for there objectives and they won that also 

30/05/2015, 10:27 am - Rajasekar S :

And in fact RAVAN was a great devotee of Lord Shiva as per the puranas...... . 

30/05/2015, 10:38 am - Sekar :

"Saguni and krishna are worked hard for their objectives and they have won in that also"

What was Saguni's objective

What was Krishna 's objective 

30/05/2015, 10:41 am - Chandrasekar :

Saguni objection is to destroy Dhirutharastra  kingdom

Krisna's objective is to crown dharma 

30/05/2015, 10:46 am - Sekar :

Why Saguni should destroy his sister's family after all Dhirutharastra  was his brother in law 

30/05/2015, 10:47 am - J Rathinakumar :

 In saguni and Krishna, Who did adharmam 

30/05/2015, 10:47 am - Sekar :

Krishna is better crook than Saguni, but Saguni is much better as he used Krishna to achieve his goal. 

30/05/2015, 10:48 am - Sekar : Both.  Saguni with his purpose. Krishna in the name of Dharma,,

Ajay Khankoje,  I need you to involve as you know the other part of mahabharat characters. 

30/05/2015, 10:55 am - Chandrasekar :

Saguni is upset with his brother in law is a blind and forced his sister to marry him 

30/05/2015, 10:58 am - Sreekumar :

I like 2 characters in mahabharatha, Karna and bheem 

30/05/2015, 11:00 am - Sekar :

Yes it is, Gauravas have destroyed Ghandara Kingdom and brought Gandari to marry the blind Dhirutharastra . Saguni with vengeance in mind joined her sister and lived with them.

Kuda irundhu kuzhi parika. Sister Gandari wasn't aware of Saguni's plans.

Bheem or bhisma 

30/05/2015, 11:06 am - Sreekumar : Bheem 

30/05/2015, 11:07 am - Chandrasekar : Wr is Philosopher SR ji 

30/05/2015, 11:13 am - Isaac John Ravi:

If you want to be the best leader, Mahabharata should be your guide. You may think that the Indian epic is obsolete and archaic, but you’d be surprised to know how much relevance it holds in today’s world, especially when it comes to your work life. Here are 7 management lessons you must learn from Mahabharata today. 

30/05/2015, 11:13 am - Isaac John Ravi:

Seize Every Opportunity,

Look out for opportunities outside your scope of work.

Never hassle yourself too much with the motive of defeating your competitor.

Rather, invest all energies on a bigger goal – to add strength and power to your business.

Win Allies

Five brothers won against a hundred. How do you think Pandavas did that? The relationships they established over the years paid off. You may be busy focusing on your own growth at the present, but you must start reaching out to more people and making allies. They will push you forward when the time comes.

Distribute Work

The more people you have, working towards different goals, the more efficient the output is going to be. One-man leadership strategy didn’t work for Kauravas and there is no way it’s going to work for you.

Know How To Build Team Spirit

Kauravas were plenty in number but null in strength. Make your team work towards a single goal instead of personal ones. Take contributions from everyone. Hear everyone out; make them learn how to work with each other.

Give Your Team Individual Goals

Allot individual goals to each team. This will help build up enthusiasm and in turn, help you in the longer run. Even though Pandavas were working towards the same ultimate goal, they had individual roles in the battle too.

Commitment – Keep It Strong

Once you’re up for a challenge, do not back out. Had Pandavas fretted about being negligible in number in comparison to the Kauravas, they would’ve never even tried. Determination and commitment will surely take you a long way.

Know Every Member’s Potential

If you’re going to manage a team, you better know what role they suit the best. Pandavas knew how to harnesses energies from each man in their army. You should be smart enough to use your team’s ability and potential to the maximum. 

30/05/2015, 11:16 am - Isaac John Ravi:

வள்ளுவர் இதை மிக அழகாக சொல்லி இருக்கிறார்.

இதனை இதனால் இவன் செய்வான் என்றாய்ந்து

அதனை அவன் கண் விடல்.

 

30/05/2015, 11:17 am - Isaac John Ravi:

Management Redefined 

30/05/2015, 11:23 am - Chandrasekar :

Dhirutharastra  has done everything to his son duriyodhana 

30/05/2015, 11:30 am - Sekar :

Blindly 

30/05/2015, 11:34 am - Chandrasekar : Yes, But his wife also supported it's bad thing 

30/05/2015, 11:43 am - Sekar :

Valluvar sonnathu pola, Krishnanum, saguniyum used the right persons to work and achieved their result. All the characters are puppets danced to master crooks Krishna and Saguni. Even though see has the capability to see and judge. Pretended as blind with eyes covered. 

30/05/2015, 12:05 pm - Chandrasekar :

How many person in kauravas ???? 

30/05/2015, 12:07 pm - Isaac John Ravi: 101. Duryodhana and his 100 Bros

30/05/2015, 12:08 pm - Chandrasekar : No 

30/05/2015, 12:08 pm - Sekar : 100 males n 1 female 

30/05/2015, 12:08 pm - Chandrasekar : There names ??

30/05/2015, 12:09 pm - Sekar : Thukshalai is the only female

 

30/05/2015, 12:13 pm - Isaac John Ravi:

I know that Duryodhana had a step brother known as Yuyutsu

30/05/2015, 12:14 pm - Sekar :

Are the real sons of thrutharastra?

30/05/2015, 12:14 pm - Isaac John Ravi:

He was the only one who was not killed in the battle of Kurukshetra

30/05/2015, 12:16 pm - Sekar :

Yuthitran, son of Pandu and kunthi, even he is not the real son.

30/05/2015, 12:18 pm - Chandrasekar :

No Isac ji  all the kauravas were killed in the battle. In fact, at the the end of the War, only ten warriors had survived. They were the five Pandavas, Krishna, Satyaki, Ashwatthama, Kripacharya, and Kritvarma. Everybody else died. 

30/05/2015, 12:18 pm - Sekar :

Kunthi had five official husbands, to solve the initial problem and before marriage itself she had all five sons. If I m wrong correct me.

30/05/2015, 12:19 pm - Chandrasekar : Before marriage kundhi had one son is karna

 

30/05/2015, 12:20 pm - Isaac John Ravi:  No No Chandru. There was this one known as Yuyutsu who was a step brother of duryodhana who was not killed in the war. You can read any Mahabharatha

30/05/2015, 12:20 pm - Sekar : Then karnan the eldest of all five

30/05/2015, 12:20 pm - Chandrasekar : Pandavas are born after marriage through pancha botha gods

30/05/2015, 12:20 pm - Sekar :

No Isaac he is right in saying Pandavas are born after marriage through pancha botha gods
 

30/05/2015, 12:21 pm - Chandrasekar : S Sekar ji

30/05/2015, 12:21 pm - Sekar : Only I doubt aswathama was survived or not

30/05/2015, 12:21 pm - Isaac John Ravi:

Please check with Mahabharatha and I have also checked with Google. Its true

30/05/2015, 12:22 pm - Chandrasekar : Aswatama in the 10 person list

30/05/2015, 12:22 pm - Sekar : Aswathama whose son is he ? 

30/05/2015, 12:23 pm - Chandrasekar : Dronacharya son is Aswathama

30/05/2015, 12:23 pm - Chandrasekar : Names of kauravas??

30/05/2015, 12:24 pm - Sekar : Chakra vugathil chikiyadu yaru, arjunanin son thanae, what's his name? 

30/05/2015, 12:24 pm - Isaac John Ravi:

All the sons of Dhirutharastra  excluding Yuyutsu (born of Dhirutharastra‘s marriage with a Vaysya woman, thus a half-brother of Duryodhana) were killed in the great battle at Kurukshetra.

Quote from Mahabharata, Sambava jayesh, Section CXV 

30/05/2015, 12:25 pm - Chandrasekar : He is abhimanu Arjuna's son 

30/05/2015, 12:26 pm - Chandrasekar : Names of 101 kauravas....

Duryodhana

Dushasana

Dussalan

Jalaganda

Sama
Saha
Vindha
Anuvindha
Durmukha
Chitrasena
Durdarsha
Durmarsha
Dussaha
Durmada
Vikarna
Dushkarna
Durdhara
Vivinsati
Durmarshana
Durvishaha
Durvimochana
Dushpradharsha
Durjaya
Jaitra
Bhurivala
Ravi
Jayatsena
Sujata
Srutavan
Srutanta
Jayat
Chitra
Upachitra
Charuchitra
Chitraksha
Sarasana
Chitrayudha
Chitravarman
Suvarma
Sudarsana
Dhanurgraha
Vivitsu
Subaahu
Nanda
Upananda
Kratha
Vatavega
Nishagin
Kavashin
Paasi
Vikata
Soma
Suvarchasas
Dhanurdhara
Ayobaahu
Mahabaahu
Chithraamga
Chithrakundala
Bheemaratha
Bheemavega
Bheemabela
Ugraayudha
Kundhaadhara
Vrindaaraka
Dridhavarma
Dridhakshathra
Dridhasandha
Jaraasandha
Sathyasandha
Sadaasuvaak
Ugrasravas
Ugrasena
Senaany
Aparaajitha
Kundhasaai
Dridhahastha
Suhastha
Suvarcha
Aadithyakethu
Ugrasaai
Kavachy
Kradhana
Kundhy
Bheemavikra
Alolupa
Abhaya
Dhridhakarmaavu
Dhridharathaasraya
Anaadhrushya
Kundhabhedy
Viraavy
Chithrakundala
Pradhama
Amapramaadhy
Deerkharoma
Suveeryavaan
Dheerkhabaahu
Kaanchanadhwaja
Kundhaasy
Virajas

And the 101st was a girl named Duhsala.

30/05/2015, 12:27 pm - Sekar :

Appo, gandari yoda pasanga illeyaa, dhuriyadan and others gauravas

30/05/2015, 12:28 pm - Chandrasekar :

Isac ji then why his name is not in the list of kauravas

30/05/2015, 12:29 pm - Sekar : Yuyutsu kannakile vendam pa. Yuyutsu illegal son on blind raja

30/05/2015, 12:30 pm - Isaac John Ravi: I do not know Chandru...My knowledge is limited in these

30/05/2015, 12:36 pm - Sekar :

Yes chandru, Dhronacharya was killed with lie of aswathama s death. Trick by Krishna.

30/05/2015, 12:37 pm - Isaac John Ravi:

It was not a lie Sekar Saab.  It was truth hidden 

30/05/2015, 12:38 pm - Rajasekar S :

No aswathama the elephant died, but while announcing the news Krishna blew his conch so that drona didnot hear the word elephant, and mistook it for his son. 

30/05/2015, 12:38 pm - Isaac John Ravi:

He said that Ashwathama died, and Dhrona misunderstood it to be his son. 

30/05/2015, 12:39 pm - Isaac John Ravi: This is Marketing. You only say the positives and hide negatives

30/05/2015, 12:39 pm - Chandrasekar : Its told by dharma

 

30/05/2015, 12:40 pm - Chandrasekar : Mahabharata has 50-50

30/05/2015, 12:42 pm - Sekar : Yes, Krishna asked Dharma to say that only then Dhronacharya will believe as Dharma will say lie

30/05/2015, 12:43 pm - Chandrasekar : Yes Sekar ji. dronacharya death is trick done by krishna

30/05/2015, 12:43 pm - Isaac John Ravi:

இதை தான் பெரியவர்கள் சொன்னார்கள். கண்ணால் காண்பதும் உண்மை அல்ல, காதால் கேட்பதும் உண்மை அல்ல. தீர விசாரிப்பதே மெய் என்று

30/05/2015, 12:44 pm - Sekar : Ellam avan seyal. Yamondrum aryoom paraparameee 

30/05/2015, 12:45 pm - Chandrasekar :

எப்பொருள் யார் யார் வாய் கேட்கினும் அப்பொருள்

மெய்ப்பொருள் காண்பது அறிவு 

30/05/2015, 12:47 pm - Sekar :

Yes, Krishna asked Dharma to say that only then Dhronacharya will believe as Dharma will not say lie.  Dharma said the truth only as aswathama the elephant has died, Krishna would have muted elephant sound. Dharma should have not done that, if a elephant dies what big matter in the battle field. 

30/05/2015, 12:51 pm - Rajasekar S :

 Sekarji in fact Krishna's plotted to kill the elephant named aswathama so that dharma will tell the truth but the word elephant will be lost in the sound of conche which is blown to close down the battle for the day..... 

 

As Yudhisthira hesitated, his brother Bhima killed an elephant in the Kuru army named Ashwathama and celebrated, shouting "Ashwathama is dead! Ashwathama is dead!". Shocked with disbelief when the news reaches him, Drona sought out Yudhisthira to ascertain the news, believing that he would never speak a lie.

Dhrishtadyumna - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 

 "Aswathama Hatha kunjara" means: Ashwatthama named elephant died, the story behind this incident is as follows:- 

This is an incidence of the battle of Kurukshetra on day 15th, when Guru Dronacharaya was at his best in slaughtering the Pandavas army. Drona already killed King Drupada, King Virat and brave warrior Satyajit that day.

Witnessing this fearsome avatar of Drona Yudhishthira and other chiefs of Pandava's army got worried because all of them can't even stand to face Drona, and Arjuna will never kill his favorite teacher. Analyzing this Lord Krishna devised a strategy to get an elephant whose name was Ashwatthama killed by Bheema and get this news across to Drona, so that he will leave his weapons and Pandavas can capture him. 

When this news reached Drona, he couldn't believe anyone as Ashwatthama himself was a great warrior; so to check authenticity he asked Yudhishtira whether news was right or not. Lord krishna knew Yudhishtira would never lie, so as soon as Yudhishtira uttered Aswathama Hatha Lord Krishna blow his conch shell in a loud voice, so that Kunjara can't be heard by Drona. 

Drona on hearing the partial truth, left his weapons and began contemplating and meditating, he was beheaded by Dhrishtdhymna, who was born just for the sole purpose of killing Drona. 

30/05/2015, 2:46 pm - Chandrasekar :

Lessor known story of Karna

Once Arjuna asks Krishna why Yudhishthir is called Dharmaraj (Religion king) and Karna Daanveer (Donation king) even though both never refused alms to anyone. Krishna says wait for some time and I will let you know.

After a month, it was raining heavily in the whole kingdom when both Krishna and Arjuna, in disguise of Brahmins (wise men/priests), first go to Yudhishthir saying that we are doing a Yajna[1] and need 100Kg of sandalwood. Yudhishthir immediately sends his servants across the kingdom, and later refuses saying it is difficult to find dry Sandal wood anywhere. Let me know if I can arrange anything else for you. Both brahmins say “no thanks” and leave the place.

Then they go to Karna and make the same demand. Karna thinks for a while and says it is raining heavily outside, it is least likely to get dry Sandal wood anywhere. He takes out his bow and arrow and cuts all windows and doors of his palace and compiles them for the Brahmins.

Later Krishna says to Arjuna, it is not that Yudhishthir would have refused if we would have asked for wood from his doors and windows. But this idea didn't strike Yudhishthir in the first place. Yudhishthir donates because it is written in Dharma (religion), Karna donates because he likes to do it.

The message of the story is very subtle. So many times in office and other places we see people who just put superficial effort to show others and make themselves feel good about their effort. They don't put their heart and soul in it. Somewhere, getting things done is not in their mind, they do it just because they have to.

Once Krishna and Arjuna were walking towards a village. Arjuna was pestering Krishna, asking him why Karna should be considered a role model for all Danas (donations) and not himself. Krishna, wanting to teach him a lesson snapped his fingers. The mountains beside the path they were walking on turned into gold. Krishna said "Arjuna, distribute these two mountains of gold among the villagers, but you must donate every last bit of gold". Arjuna went into the village, and proclaimed he was going to donate gold to every villager, and asked them to gather near the mountain. The villagers sang his praises and Arjuna walked towards the mountain with a huffed up chest. For two days and two continuous nights Arjuna shovelled gold from the mountain and donated to each villager. The mountains did not diminish in their slightest.

Most villagers came back and stood in queue within minutes. After a while, Arjuna, started feeling exhausted, but not ready to let go of his ego just yet, told Krishna he couldn't go on any longer without rest. Krishna called Karna. "You must donate every last bit of this mountain, Karna" he told him. Karna called two villagers. "You see those two mountains?" Karna asked, "those two mountains of gold are yours to do with as you please" he said,  and walked away. 

Arjuna sat dumbfounded. Why hadn't this thought occurred to him? Krishna smiled mischievously and told him "Arjuna, subconsciously,  you yourself were attracted to the gold, you regretfully gave it away to each villager, giving them what you thought was a generous amount. Thus the size of your donation to each villager depended only on your imagination. Karna holds no such reservations. Look at him walking away after giving away a fortune, he doesn't expect people to sing his praises, he doesn't even care if people talk good or bad about him behind his back. That is the sign of a man already on the path of enlightenment". 

This story especially rings true in this age of obscene wealth, where everyone and his dog are standing in line to help the "poor and the needy", yet all that goes on is a shallow, vulgar display of wealth. 

30/05/2015, 4:18 pm - Rajasekar S :

The “Evil” Duryodhana?

First of all, any “evil” that Duryodhana and his brothers did was only confined to the Pandavas and their common wife Draupadi. For example, when the Pandavas were in exile in the forest, Duryodhana ruled as effective king, even though his father was nominally the king. There is no mention in the Mahabharata that Duryodhana was a bad king – that, as another person suggested, there was a rise in crime, murders and rapes, etc. Duryodhana’s quarrel was not with the people of his land. 
 

Duryodhana was apparently a king who cared for his subjects. He was generous, performed sacrifices and gave gifts to his subjects, and so on. His quarrel was only with the Pandavas, and that is because there was a genuine disagreement about who should inherit the kingdom. Yes, Duryodhana did a lot of bad things – TO THE PANDAVAS – but his justification (which he once presents to Dhritarashtra) is that all is fair in war, and that whatever is effective in the destruction of a powerful enemy is acceptable – in the words even of the guru of the Devas, Brihaspati.

The answer to that question – who had the legal right to inherit the kingdom of Hastinapura -  is by no means obvious.

Who Should Have Inherited Hastinapura? 

First of all, realize that the actual Kuru dynasty ends with Bhishma on blood lines. Vichitravirya and Chitrangada, Santanu’s sons by Satyavati, both die childless, and so Vichitravirya’s widows are impregnated by Vyasa, Satyavati’s son by her premarital sexual union with the sage Parasara. The Mahabharata is therefore essentially the story of Vyasa’s biological children and their offspring. Both Dhritarashtra and Pandu are Vyasa’s sons, speaking biologically; from the prevalent custom, they are legally Vichitravirya’s sons. Next, Pandu, the younger brother, due to a curse, cannot father children; but he begets children from the Devas on his wife because of a boon Kunti had received. Dhritarashtra’s sons, on the other hand, ARE his own biological sons.

Dhritarashtra cannot inherit the kingdom because he is blind; Pandu abdicates because of his curse; and so then, Dhritarashtra DOES become the king, not simply a regent. He is actually the king at this point. 

Pandu’s “legal” son Yudhisthira, the biological offspring of Yama and Kunti, is born before Dhritarashtra’s biological son Duryodhana. Duryodhana is thus the biological son of the actual king at the time. One could make a fair argument (and Duryodhana and his supporters do argue this) that, being the son of the king, Duryodhana should inherit the kingdom.  

Yudhisthira is born earlier than Duryodhana, but he is the son of the younger brother Pandu who, in addition, is no longer king at this time.

So who should be king? Bhishma and Vidura convince Dhritarashtra that it is Yudhisthira who ought to be king, but Duryodhana feels his birthright is being taken away from him.  

Finally, a compromise solution is arrived at, whereby the Pandavas are given the Khandava forest to rule over after splitting the kingdom. One could ask reasonably why this was unsatisfactory to Duryodhana, but if you see things from his viewpoint, there is no need to be happy about giving up half of what you think was yours. From Duryodhana’s viewpoint, the Pandavas had no business getting ANY share of the kingdom, and that stands as a pretty good argument on its own.

So I will argue that history is written by the victors, and that “evil” lies in the eyes of the beholder. Of course, Duryodhana was guilty of personally hurting the Pandavas on many occasions – poisoning Bhima, trying to burn them alive in the lac palace, and so on. Not to forget insulting their wife in the game of dice. But these he felt justified in doing in keeping with Brihaspati’s principle that all is fair in war.

Keep in mind also that Duryodhana’s cheating with Sakuni’s help in the game of dice is never proved. In fact, the Pandavas never once accuse Sakuni of cheating. When Draupadi is dragged by the hair by Dussasana and asks for justice from the assembly, including Bhishma, it is Bhishma who says that it is hard for him to judge, especially because Yudhisthira has not contended that Sakuni has cheated, and that Draupadi seems to have been fairly won. He even leaves the question of whether Draupadi was fairly won by the Kauravas for Yudhisthira to decide, given that Yudhisthira is Dharmaraja – the Just King – and Yudhisthira is silent, indicating that indeed, Draupadi was won fairly.

Now I will come to Krishna. Krishna’s Motivations. Why does Krishna take sides with the Pandavas?

Because Krishna had an existential problem with Jarasandha, the powerful king of Magadha, who could be defeated by no one but Bhima. Jarasandha was responsible for Krishna and his people having to flee Mathura (which is why Krishna has the appellation Rann-chhod – one who fled the battlefield) and run away to Dwaraka. When convincing Yudhishthira to send Bhima to kill Jarasandha, Krishna mentions that this is the only way to kill him, because killing him in battle, with weapons, would be impossible for the Devas and Asuras put together, and the only person in the world who is strong enough to kill him is Bhima.

Krishna is, of course, related to the Pandavas through Kunti, who was his aunt, but in politics relationships are never very important. He recognizes that partnership with the Pandavas would strengthen his position and eventually rid him of his enemy Jarasandha – and in return he supports the Pandavas’ claim to the kingdom of Hastinapura.

His gamble succeeds, of course, when he goads a rather unwilling Yudhisthira, after they have built Khandavaprastha and renamed it Indraprastha, to conduct the Rajasuya Yagna, to perform which Yudhisthira must be acknowledged as supreme emperor by everyone, including Jarasandha – which will necessitate the killing of Jarasandha, for he would not acknowledge anyone as an overlord.

And that is precisely what happens. Bhima kills Jarasandha in an epic wrestling match lasting for weeks. Yudhisthira becomes emperor, and Krishna’s future is secure.

So, was it necessary to kill Duryodhana and his brothers? No. And Krishna certainly did not intend to accomplish that in the beginning. The person who did accomplish that, and on whose shoulders we must place squarely the blame of the entire carnage of the great war, is Yudhisthira.